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Auteur Sujet: Honda en F1  (Lu 407052 fois)

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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1110 le: 15 avril 2025 à 18:14:23 »
Pour ceux qui ont accès au site du magazine anglais Motorsports, un très bon article sur le dernier V12 champion du monde de F1...

1992 avec Magic Senna et sleeping Gerhard  ;D

Les initiés comprendront  :'(
« Modifié: 16 avril 2025 à 13:41:16 par Vercors-07 »
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Re : Re : Re : Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1111 le: 15 avril 2025 à 19:17:15 »
Il faut absolument écouter la symphonie de ce V12, 1,5l!

https://youtu.be/UHSqnyoOv2E?si=rJUS5-gkQ4jlnx99

17 symphonies à disposition, mais  :-\  sur LaserDisc  :'(
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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1112 le: 16 avril 2025 à 09:09:57 »
Senna's last title-winning F1 car: Why McLaren 'had to start again'
- Last updated: March 24th 2025

Ayrton Senna won the 1991 F1 championship with McLaren's MP4/6, the only V12 car to win the title. Team members tell James Elson of the chaotic efforts to defeat the superior Williams — a fight where Senna made the difference.

With 30 years having passed since the great Ayrton Senna’s death, a special commemorative parade and commemoration will take place at his home venue of Interlagos before the 2024 Sao Paulo GP.

His 1990 title-winning McLaren MP4/5B will run this weekend, but it’s that car’s successor, the MP4/6, which became the bedrock of his final championship-winning year – one that could be put forward as his greatest season.

Wrestling with an initially overweight, 1991’s underpowered V12 McLaren Honda car, the Brazilian saw off the coming force of rivals old and new to cement his racing legacy.

As well as being a landmark Macca based on its results, the MP4/6 is the only V12 car in F1 history to win a constructors’ world title and the final champion effort to use a manual gearbox.

However, it wasn’t 1991’s best car – that was the Williams FW14. Much of what defines that year of Senna/McLaren brilliance is the fact they were fighting what should have been a losing battle against Grove and Nigel Mansell, yet still prevailed.

This was down to both the drivers’ genius, the team optimising what it had and Honda’s inspired push to keep giving Senna what he wanted.

As the Brazilian’s 1991 race engineer James Robinson tells Motor Sport: “He only had to use 1% of his mental capacity to drive the car” focusing the rest on helping the team dig deep to keep itself in the battle.

Speaking three decades on, he and former McLaren designer Matthew Jeffreys – part of the design team led by Neil Oatley – recall the fascinating story of a hugely significant year in grand prix racing.

Similar to Red Bull in 2024, 1991 was the year McLaren found itself fighting rising challengers after enjoying a number of dominant seasons.

Williams had signed hotshot young designer Adrian Newey to design 1991’s FW14, and its Renault V10 was coming on song – plus there was Mansell behind the wheel to grab the matter by the scruff of the neck.

Honda’s answer was to come up with a V12 engine. More weight but, its engineers hoped, more power too – starting at 725bhp, would it be enough to make the scaling-up worth it? It meant a comprehensive redesign of Senna’s previous championship winners.

“We almost had to start again, because of the bigger engine V12 and the increased fuel capacity,” remembers Jeffreys, who now produces painstakingly detailed engineering drawings of famous F1 cars – including those he helped design.

“The engine’s heavier, it’s thirstier so it needs more fuel, potentially the car’s going to get longer. Though we seemed a lot more worried about wheelbase length in those days than perhaps we needed to be, when you look at the length of F1 cars now!

“[How] centre of gravity [is affected] is also is very important – both with height especially but also terms of the fore-and-aft weight distribution. It just presents a different number of packaging and dynamics requirements.

“The radiators have to be bigger because the engine is producing more heat, etc.”

For Senna, who loved the Honda V10 with which had won his two previous world championships, moving to a V12 was hard to accept.

“I think people like Ayrton were very sceptical, and we were too,” Jeffreys remembers. “It’s all very well having great top end power, but if the power curve and the torque curve are too peaky, then the driver can’t use it effectively [in low and mid-speed corners].”

It wasn’t just a lack of response under his right foot that was rankling either.

“The car understeered like a pig, which was no good at all for Ayrton, he hated that aspect,” says Robinson.

The car was hardly without its virtues though. A rethink in monocoque and bodywork design meant that Jeffreys and co were able to come up with a machine they hoped would be better balanced.

“The previous [McLaren] monocoques, we had quite a few sharp edges where the natural corners happen – but with flat panels in between, to maintain torsional stiffness,” he says.

“[But] on the MP4/6, the two surfaces that run from the front to the back of the monocoque are on a curve, they don’t actually change direction with an angle – it’s a flowing surface.

“We wanted to reduce the number of changes of angles that the [carbon-]fibres had to go around, to improve torsional stiffness.”

Not that this initially appeased Senna or his team-mate Gerhard Berger much.

“They thought the power wasn’t enough,” recalls Jeffreys. “And Honda said ‘We’re just not running it at full power, we would prefer the reliability.’

“That was it, it wasn’t powerful enough, and it was heavy. So there was concern, even though we’d won the first four races.”

Despite Senna making a clean sweep of 1991’s opening quartet, all at Woking could see the storm on the horizon.

“The Williams was a far better car,” says Robinson. “But they had a major gearbox problem.

“They didn’t know what it was. They were smashing gears. It turned out they were selecting two gears at the same time, because of their transverse box…”

Senna would go out of ‘91’s fifth round at Canada with electrical issues, the first of five races without a victory.

Before that race he led the championship with 40 points, his closest challenger being Ferrari’s Alain Prost on 11 points, with Mansell on six points.

After the five-race lean spell, he had 51 points to Mansell’s 43, the Brit taking a hat-trick of victories in the meantime.

Among reliability and weight issues, Senna’s McLaren’s colleagues remember he would test their nerves with some daredevil lack-of-economy runs too.

“We knew we had a fight on our hands,” remembers Jeffreys. “A number of things started to creep in – we also had problems with fuel reading, in getting an accurate fuel measurement.”

“He would use more fuel than he was allowed to use early on in the race and say, ‘Well, the race is at the beginning. At the end, I can back off and save it,’” says Robinson.

“So he would go very negative on the meter, which would have us all on the pitwall screaming at him, and he’d just go: ‘Don’t worry, I can get it back – but in two races [Silverstone and Hockenheim] he didn’t, and ran out!”

Things started to come back together in Hungary when Senna was once more on top of the rostrum – but it wasn’t easy getting there.

“The car wasn’t brilliant,” says Robinson. “And one thing I had not been used to – Henri Durand [who moved to McLaren from Ferrari for 1991], who had done the aero on it, was very much: ‘I’ve designed this car, this car is perfect.’

“And I’m going: ‘No, we need to be developing the car. We need to find two-tenths a weekend.’ And he was adamant: ‘No, no, this is the car. We can’t change anything. That’s the best car I’ve done.’

“There was a bit of a fight within the team and all of us about trying to improve the car, because you’ve got Ayrton ringing you up, banging on each weekend.

“[In contrast] Honda would do that [improve their product]. They would come every weekend and say: ‘Mr Senna, we have found 10 horsepower’, or whatever it was. He’d demand to see the graphs and ask where the power was on the torque curve.  :afro:

“Martin [Whitmarsh] had wanted Henri because he liked Ferrari’s front wing,” says Jeffreys. “But it turned out that was done by someone else at Ferrari!”

The eventually-redesigned MP4/6 which Senna took to victory in Hungary managed to combine its more powerful engine (now 780bhp) with a new, lightweight monocoque. Jeffreys explains the process.

“The only way you can really do it is to look at everything,” he says. “And if you can take 2 or 3% off everything, then that’s quite a lot.

“It’s very difficult to find big chunks, where you can say ‘Oh, that could be half the size of that.’

“And you have to make things more efficient as well – which affects your thinking in terms of the design.

When were were looking at the dampers, it struck me that the line where nose cone joins to the rest of the body cuts across the Marlboro chevron, meaning George [Langhorn] in the paint shop had to paint two little triangles of Marlboro red over the nose.

“So we decided to split the join of the bodywork so it follows the line of the [cigarette design] chevron.

“It’s just how your brain works when you’re looking for the efficiency of everything.”

The changes made the difference – in the six races from Hungary to Japan, Senna would score two wins and three second places to clinch the championship with a race in hand before the season close.

Managing to dig deep when he needed it most – with the help of a brilliant team – it’s perhaps Senna’s greatest title triumph.

“We produced more ‘6’s than we would normally have done in a season,” says Jeffreys.

“We had to keep finding new ways to be competitive. We were aware we had to shed weight and increase power on both sides.”

“I think it’s one of the qualities of McLaren, the ability to develop the car,” says Robinson.

“That’s McLaren’s depth. That was Ron, if people got a bit sidelined, he’d put them on different projects. Other teams would have let go of them. But you could bring them back in if needed.”

As ever though, Senna was a driving force.

“I’d worked with Nelson Piquet at Williams, so was used to the technical, methodical approach, but with Ayrton it was an extreme level,” remembers Robinson.

“The thing is that confidence circle goes around. If you’ve not got confidence in your driver and your driver hasn’t got confidence in you as an engineer or in your team or whatever, then the snowball doesn’t roll.

“The difference with Ayrton was that driving the car was 1% of his effort. His mental capacity was what gave him the difference. He knew what was going on the whole time.”
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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1113 le: 16 avril 2025 à 10:32:27 »
A l'époque, le presse spécialisée se demandait quand même si ce V12 Honda n'était pas tout simplement, un péché d'orgueil?
On leur prêtait l'intention d'avoir juste voulu faire comme Ferrari ; Ferrari qui a d'ailleurs fini par se convertir au V10!
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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1114 le: 16 avril 2025 à 10:41:50 »
 O0

Ce qui est bien avec Motor Sport, ce sont toutes ces anecdotes avec les ingénieurs et autres membres des staffs des équipes de F1. Avec ce magazine, on sent bien que la F1 est un sport mécanique britannique.

Ils adorent nos pilotes, il y a plein d'articles très détaillés sur les Cevert, Pironi, Arnoux, Jabouille... et évidemment Prost.
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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1115 le: 16 avril 2025 à 12:51:07 »
Turbocharged dreams: Honda’s rollercoaster F1 story

Honda's announcement of its 2026 Aston Martin F1 engine deal is just the latest chapter in its highly eventful grand prix history – we look at those ups and downs via our archive

Few manufacturers’ relationships with grand prix racing are as idiosyncratic as Honda’s. The Japanese marque has experienced immense success, but many pitfalls too, precipitating acrimonious break-ups and mystifying exits just when the going is good – or looking imminently good.

However, hand in hand with the driving talents of Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, John Surtees, Nigel Mansell and Jenson Button, Honda has carved its name into the F1 history books.

Now with the announcement of its 2026 engine deal with F1’s coming team – Aston Martin – the automotive giant looks set for a new era of fighting at the front in grand prix racing.
« Modifié: 16 avril 2025 à 13:03:06 par Vercors-07 »
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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1116 le: 16 avril 2025 à 12:52:41 »
Swinging Sixties: Honda’s first F1 entry – and exit

Honda first entered F1 in 1964 with the RA271. In stark contrast to the rest of the grid, largely dominated by Western Europeans and South American staff, the team was entirely populated by Japanese team members – aside from its American driver Ronnie Bucknum.

Honda’s first season with the RA271 brought little joy, but the marque returned the next year with the RA272, which Richie Ginther drove to a famous debut victory for the manufacturer at Mexico.

Next came the RA273, which John Surtees wheeled to a podium in his first race for Honda, at Kyalami ’67, but the ’64 F1 champ soon decreed the car simply wasn’t good enough.

Surtees initiated a new project in conjunction with Lola, and Honda based its next car on the British marque’s Lola T90 IndyCar.

Thus the RA300 was born, winning first time out in the hands of Surtees by leading just one lap – the final tour of the 1967 Italian GP, the Brit clinching the victory from Jack Brabham by 0.2sec.

Honda’s ’68 effort, the RA301, was problemetic but did garner two podiums for Surtees in the three races he finished in it, before its first F1 tenure ended in tragedy.

The magnesium-skinned RA302 – which Surtees refused to drive after labelling it a “deathtrap” – viciously caught fire at Rouen on lap two of the ’69 French GP when stand-in Jo Schlesser crashed into a bank. Honda withdrew from F1 soon after.
« Modifié: 16 avril 2025 à 13:03:22 par Vercors-07 »
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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1117 le: 16 avril 2025 à 12:53:41 »
Spirited return: the first F1 comeback

Fifteen years after an absence from grand prix racing, Honda was back – but in not the most auspicious fashion.

The team it chose to make its turbocharged-F1 return with was the little Spirit F2 outfit, run by John Wickham.

Having funded the F2 team in 1982 as a pseudo-Honda works effort, head office then chose the team to first test its new turbo engine in a mule car and then become the F1 team which would run it.

“We were a race team, so that’s what we wanted to do, but we also felt that if we didn’t, the engine would eventually end up somewhere else,” said Wickham.

The Spirit 201C made its debut at the ’83 Race of Champions in the hands of Stefan Johansson, but despite being a decent F1 effort was dogged by reliability issues.

The poor results had consequences – before the season was out, Honda had signed a contract to move to Williams for ’84.
« Modifié: 16 avril 2025 à 13:03:49 par Vercors-07 »
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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1118 le: 16 avril 2025 à 12:55:10 »
First title glory: Honda tastes F1 championship success with Williams

In moving to Frank Williams’ gang, Honda had chosen a team which knew how to win.

The Didcot outfit had been reluctant to join the turbo teams, but a ban on ground effect precipitated a switch away from naturally aspirated engines.

“Nobuhiko Kawamoto [later the CEO of Honda between 1990 and ’98] quickly realised that Spirit wasn’t going to get the job done,” then-Williams technical director Patrick Head told Motor Sport.

“By the middle of the year we had done a deal with Honda to do a full season of F1 in 1984 and it was quite a learning experience…”

As Head explains, Honda’s sporting department had a unique approach to going racing.

“The engine arrived, with no paperwork at all. I sent a message by telex saying, ‘could you please advise for a heat balance for the engine?’. I asked for heat balance and installation details. They came back, and said ‘Please design as you think.’”  :2funny:

After this rocky start, the floodgates soon opened.

Williams-Honda took 24 wins over the next four season, Nigel Mansell almost claiming the ’86 drivers’ crown before Nelson Piquet clinched it the next year. Soon after though, Honda announced it had decided to change the game.

“In mid-1987, Sakurai told us that ‘McLaren is going to be our lead team next year with Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna’. Honda was in love with Senna,” said Head.

“We already had a contract for 1988, but Honda said ‘That’s it, we will supply you, we’ll fulfil our contract for you, but it will be with Piquet and Nakajima’. It would have meant saying goodbye to Nigel, so it was complicated. It felt lousy because we were winning everything, beating their other team [Lotus] and being told they weren’t going to be with us next year.”
« Modifié: 16 avril 2025 à 13:04:13 par Vercors-07 »
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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1119 le: 16 avril 2025 à 12:56:12 »
Domination years with, McLaren and Senna, then leaves F1 for second time

Honda’s RA168E turbo engine was installed in McLaren’s MP4-4, believed by many to be the greatest F1 car of all time.

In the hands of the Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost, the car proved devastating, winning 15 out of the 16 races in 1988, the greatest winning percentage of F1 car.

Technical director John Barnard had left for Ferrari, and the man who took over the chief designer role, Steve Nichols, explained to Motor Sport how it harnessed Honda’s power from the RA168E engine.

“We all used this as an opportunity to break out a little bit, do some of the things that we wanted to do,” he said.

“I wanted to do more, and I think other people in the team wanted to stretch their wings too. I wanted to use all the brainpower we had to take things to a different level.”

Honda and McLaren would win the title double four years straight from ’88 to ’91 before the Japanese firm left at the end of the next season, once more having made an indelible mark on F1.

“Honda had some fantastic engineers and nothing was too much trouble,” said Nichols.

“Their work ethic was phenomenal. We’d go over to Tokyo, land late at night and they’d greet us at their technical centre, ready to talk for a couple of hours, after which they’d want to go out for a drink. It wasn’t just F1, either. At 11pm the place would be absolutely buzzing, with people working on lawnmowers, outboard engines and stuff like that.”
« Modifié: 16 avril 2025 à 13:04:29 par Vercors-07 »
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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1120 le: 16 avril 2025 à 12:56:59 »
Third return: Jordan and BAR

Six years after its second F1 exit and Honda was back – kind of. Its engine tuning division, Mugen, supplied customer engines to Jordan from 1998, with steadily increasing success.

The Silverstone squad would win Spa ’98 with Damon Hill before Heinz-Harald Frentzen mounted an unlikely title challenge the following year, ultimately finishing third.

After another season of running Mugen Hondas in 2000 Jordan, along with the recently-formed BAR team, became a works squad for the next two years.

BAR then became the sole focus in from 2003 onwards, and though results improved, with Jenson Button particularly impressive, that next win was still elusive.
« Modifié: 16 avril 2025 à 13:04:45 par Vercors-07 »
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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1121 le: 16 avril 2025 à 12:57:55 »
BAR works takeover and third exit

For 2006, Honda bought the Brackley F1 team from BAR. Results were up and down. An early podium and pole for Button was mixed and matched with various breakdowns and reliability setbacks.

Button said the team’s insatiable desire of innovation held it back.

“A lot of it was relaibility [but] it was a team that was coming up with great ideas – it was staggering. They were working on the flexi rear wing as well, as well as a front differential which was amazing under braking. You could hammer the brakes and never lock up. It was really fun to be part of a team like that that was developing so rapidly and taking the fight to the bigger teams like Ferrari and Renault.”

At Budapest, it all came good. An inspired tyre strategy and execution from Button brought the first Honda works team win in nearly forty years – also a first victory for the Brit.

However, 2007 was a disaster, the car both slow and even more unreliable than its predecessor.

Former Ferrari tech chief Ross Brawn was brought in later that season too, but the 2008 car was even worse.

After that year’s economic crisis closed in, Honda decided to cut its losses and sold the team to Brawn for a nominal price – his eponymous team would win both F1 titles with Button the following year.
« Modifié: 16 avril 2025 à 13:05:15 par Vercors-07 »
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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1122 le: 16 avril 2025 à 12:58:37 »
Marriage made in hell: second McLaren link-up for fourth return

Martin Whitmarsh and Ron Dennis managed to persuade Honda to return and rekindle former McLaren glories for 2015, but the link-up proved to be a disaster.

Honda was rushed in a year earlier than it would have liked, and the Honda RA616H in the back of the MP4-31 soon proved it wasn’t up to scratch in any department.

Driver Fernando Alonso dubbed the power unit a “GP2 engine” — at the manufacturer’s home race in Suzuka — and things only slightly improved over the next couple of years.

At the end of 2017, it was announced that Honda and McLaren would part ways, with the Japanese marque moving over to power Red Bull junior team Toro Rosso as a test run for the senior squad.
« Modifié: 16 avril 2025 à 13:05:28 par Vercors-07 »
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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1123 le: 16 avril 2025 à 12:59:36 »
Champions again at last: Red Bull title years and exit again

Now installed in the back of a Faenza Formula 1 car, the RA618H proved an improvement on previous efforts.

Pierre Gasly finished fourth for the team in his second race in Bahrain with seven more points finishes, and combined with team-mate Brendon Hartley things finally marked an upturn in fortunes for Honda.

In 2018 the team would score double its previous haul. The Red Bull team adopted a Honda engine too in 2019, in which Max Verstappen would take three wins. The Japanese manufacturer was a winner again at last.

The Dutchman snared two more victories in 2020, before coming of age in 2021. Engaging in a titanic title battle with Mercedes’ Lewis Hamilton, Verstappen won ten races on his way to the drivers’ title.

Honda had announced it would withdraw from F1 at the end of 2021, but ended up turning back on its decision and extending its commitment, with engines badged HRC in a semi-customer arrangement. Honda, Red Bull and Verstappen would dominate in 2022, taking both titles, and have continued doing so in 2023.
« Modifié: 16 avril 2025 à 13:05:44 par Vercors-07 »
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Re : Honda en F1
« Réponse #1124 le: 16 avril 2025 à 13:00:27 »
The future’s bright with Aston Martin for ‘fifth’ go at F1

On May 24 2023 Aston Martin announced that Honda would be its engine supplier – once again the Japanese brand will power a full works effort.

“The biggest key factor for this decision for us this time around was the direction that the new 2026 regulations is facing towards,” said Honda Racing Corporation boss Koji Watanabe.

“Which is moving towards carbon neutrality. And that direction or that was matched with our company’s goal moving into the future.

“I believe the technology for electrification would be useful for us in mass manufacturing EV vehicles in the future. Also, the 2026 regulations to be newly installed would obligate us to go 100% towards carbon-neutral fuel.”

Honda looks set to aim for F1 glory for years to come.
« Modifié: 16 avril 2025 à 13:05:57 par Vercors-07 »
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